These are not resolvable positions.
Some of this is in response to The Veganic Way’s rant here:
At this point, in relation to the time line of earth’s history, change DOES need to happen overnight. The problem is that most of the world is sleeping. We need to wake up.
I fail to understand why so many self-proclaimed animal rights supporters seem to think that any useful progress can be made while we allow the massive welfare organizations to dominate the entire debate, and instead demand that we should sit back and let this happen and effectively offer no response while we instead dither with meaningless media-driven campaigns to “expose” the public to the evils of capitalism.
I’m a leftist. I’m critical of capitalism.
The general public doesn’t care. An echo-chamber insularity and an unwillingness to see the facts in front of us for what they actually are has been an ongoing problem of the modern Left for 30 years. If we can just – JUST – spew enough anticapitalist babble at the masses, maybe this time they’ll listen.
No, they won’t. In the meantime, the cozy relationship between the welfare movement and the industrial animal exploitation industries will continue torturing and killing animals, and the welfare movement will continue providing socially acceptable excuses for it.
What would The Veganic Way have us do in response?
Make use of the “independent media” (here’s a protip, darling: I read Indymedia, too. Joe and Jane Sixpack don’t give a damn) to “expose people” to a convoluted mess of left theory and dithering instead of just dissecting the exaggerations and falsehoods of the welfare movement.
Because Veganic is of course no *fan* of the welfare movement. He’s just saying we should all shut up about it.
Is it any wonder that we’re so small and ineffective? Instead of taking the direct, accomplishable route of educating people and disabusing them of welfarist fictions, no, instead we need to take on Smithfields and Archer Daniels Midland and Monsanto. Because bazillion dollar multinationals are eeevil, but utterly stupid, and will be stopped by a tiny little micro-horde of “independent journalists” from the outer edges of the fringe media who want to do a “hard hitting expose” and the multinationals, who have no media budgets of their own, nor any skill at manipulating the corporate media, will just roll over and play dead. Really, seriously, good luck with that.
The strategic calculation in this isn’t difficult to understand: the industry is responding to demand. The industry will ALWAYS respond to demand. Reduce and eliminate demand, and the industry goes away. Play at making “hard hitting” fringe media to “expose the truth” about the industry is a surefire recipe for echo-chamber success. Lots of noise and congratulatory accolades from the chamber, and no change at ALL on the ground.
Good luck with that.
The problem is demand. Unless we meaningfully address the issue of demand – through ongoing vegan education and outreach – we can play at “holding the oppressors” feet to the fire all we may like, and not a damn thing will change. You’re welcome to try. I’m beyond convinced it won’t work in the way you think it will — that’s not to say that it won’t work at all. But your standard of success in this is rapid, widespread cultural change. There is a mountain of evidence that suggests that if this is your expectation and standard of success, you’re likely to be disappointed.
There are no easy solutions in this. Complaining because vegan and abolitionist education works “too slowly” is completely pointless. Everything works too slowly. Some things work not at all. The reason so much of the present abolitionist argument is focused on dissecting the claims made by the welfare movement is because there’s a serious need for it. There’s widespread default acceptance for the claims made by the decades-and-decades old welfare movement, and that will not simply go away because you wish folks would focus on YOUR priorities instead.
It would be nice if people would. They will not, as a practical matter, actually do so. They won’t focus on mine, either, but I’m not making a claim that what I’m doing is going to produce overnight change.
Sure, fine, most people will ignore any and all vegan education; I’ve said so, several times. It all works too slowly. But there are no magic solutions. Pretending otherwise is completely counterproductive.
But, honestly, don’t take my word for it. Go make a documentary. Go fund investigative reportage. Get it out in the culture. Go do it. I’m not telling you not to do it. I’m telling you you shouldn’t have unrealistic expectations about its impact. But, ultimately, whatever expectations you have are your own business.
Over on OregonLive, I’m in the midst of the usual silly blathering with folks whose defense of animal testing is ill-considered and defaults to the status quo, and human benefit uber alles. This is typical.
The animal rights case against animal testing is one of simple decency: that humans derive benefit from animal testing is irrelevant. That humans have tested drugs and other medical treatments on other animals for a very long time is also irrelevant.
Animal rights holds that animals possess intrinsic value, and no not merely exist as a means to an end, any more than humans exist as a means to an end for other humans.
We recognize that animal testing isn’t going away tomorrow, or any time soon, but we recognize that no aspect of animal exploitation is disappearing in the near term. But we still have a moral obligation to speak out against it, because things will never change so long as we sit silent.
The argument is simple; where we do not now have good, scientifically valid alternatives to the use of animals in research, develop them. Don’t rest on the status quo, simply because humans have benefitted from that status quo for as long as any of us have been alive. Where we do currently have viable alternatives (human tissue studies, using excised tumors, for example) use them. In many cases, where viable alternatives are available, they’re not actually being used because animal testing, like every other form of animal exploitation, is a profitable business.
Huntingdon Life Sciences, a frequent target of AR actions, reports annual profits in the region of $50 million a year or more, on annual revenues close to $200 million a year. In 2007, Financial Times ran an op-ed, in which HLS managing director Brian Cass justified further investment from the financial sector on HLS given its profitability:
Regulatory filings show the US company had 47 clients placing orders for more than $1m last year, and reported gross profits up 5 per cent to $50m on revenues of $192m.
Don’t buy into the “necessity” argument: the animal testing industry is an industry, like any other form of large scale, ongoing animal exploitation. It does not exist altruistically.
We accept that change will not come soon – but it must come.
From Open Salon:
If you’re going to kill an animal, at least have the good sense to honor it by appreciating the sacrifice it made.
Would you call it an honorific if your pet was killed, skinned and cooked? Would it really honor your dog or your cat – presumably a companion animal you shower with love and affection – if that animal was served to you on a plate and you ate her?
This is like saying slave owners respect “slave’s rights.” Sigh.
No, folks, the fact that you enslave and kill animals for profit doesn’t mean you “respect” animal rights. What you enjoyis the way the animal tastes, or the fact that your livelihood is legally permitted. You do not “respect” animal rights.
This is precisely why I don’t like the term “partner” – especially when we buy into using a “less-than-equal” term on our own to describe our relationships. In this society, your married-other-half who is a woman is your wife. If your married other half is a man, he’s your husband. There’s no reason heterosexuals get to own these terms. From the Prop 8 trial testimony:
Chu: How does getting married change things.
Zia: In most immediate sense, it was in how our families related to us. When we first got married. We have a niece, 2 years old, only known us Auntie Helen and Auntie Leah. WHen she saw Leah and me, she gave us a big hug, said, Auntie Leah, now you’re really my auntie. I thought, well, you’ve always known her as your auntie. Somehow it made a difference. It made a difference to our parents.When you say you’re a domestic partner. When people say …who’s this person? I can’t count the number of times who said …Partner in what business. We’d say …partners in life. Often it was bewilderment. What business is life, do you mean life insurance. It’s a matter of how our families relate to people. For me to show up at every event. People ask who’s she. For her 90-something auntie to say, here’s Leah’s friend. She must be a really good friend, suddently there were able to say, Helen is my daughter in law.
Ok, social conservatives. I get it.
Really, I do.
You feel an incredible sense of propriety around the word “marriage.” To some of you, it even represents a religious sacrament. It’s deeply meaningful to you, on several levels.
But here’s the thing: you don’t get to claim exclusive ownership of “deeply meaningful on several levels.” I have a stake in that, too. Just as you have the deeply intuited sense that marriage means “one man and one woman, joined together in a social, legal and cultural framework, (and, for at least some of you) blessed or ordained by God” the sticking point is that you don’t get to make an absolute demand that every other legal marriage has to conform to each and every aspect of that proposed framework.
Are you folks saying that heterosexual civil (but non-religious) marriage isn’t marriage?
Are you saying that non-Christians who get married aren’t entitled to consider themselves married?
Are you saying that – given that procreation is inevitably used, over and over again to justify heterosexual privilege, here – that infertile-but-straight couples have no right to claim the term “marriage” for their relationships?
Of course you aren’t.
If you can make room for civil marriage – not domestic partnership, not “civil unions,” not semi, sort-of, watered-down versions of “marriage lite” for other folks – for atheists and agnostics, for folks who have no intention of ever having children, biologically or otherwise, for folks who don’t solemnize their relationships in anything even remotely close to your personal religious traditions – if you can make room for THOSE folks, is it really so beyond the pale to consider that a gay couple is owed a place at the table, too?
I get that many of you feel provincial about marriage.
I get that you’d rather we just settled for domestic partnership, in all its lack and imperfection, but here’s the thing:
Separate-but-equal is unconstitutional. It doesn’t matter how many “defense of marriage” laws you may manage to pass. Once upon a time, the written letter of the law in this country defined black people as 2/3 human. The law was wrong. It changed.
The laws around marriage, as presently written, in much of the country are wrong. They’re simply, flat-out wrong. They need to change. I understand that you don’t want them to change, but that doesn’t alter the fact that a fundamental moral wrong is still being done, here.
Even if our domestic partnership/civil marriage arrangements really were separate-but-equal, they’d still be wrong, and the “marriage-lite” arrangements we have aren’t even within shouting distance of the appearance of equality.
Full civil marriage for all consenting adults, or none at all. Anything else is simply wrong – not just as a matter of principle, but as a matter of settled law.
Since I keep going the rounds with this, with speciesists big and small:
Animal rights is the ethical position that all sentient beings are inherently free beings, and that humans – who have the option of recognizing this – have no moral justification for denying that fundamental freedom where possible.
Breeding and selling animals denies this freedom.
Consuming animals denies this freedom.
Using animals as objects for experimentation denies this freedom.
Exploiting animals for our entertainment denies this freedom.
Using animals as property – in all the many ways we choose to do it – denies this freedom.
Yes, even pet-keeping denies this freedom (but, in the interim, it may be the best of a bad set of options, under certain conditions).
It’s not up to us to grant animals the basic freedom that is their inherent right: it’s up to us to recognize it, just as we’ve expanded the sphere of freedom to many classes of humans to which it was once denied.
Is the animal rights case perfect? Of course not. No theory of moral rights ever devised by humans perfectly allows for the absolute freedom of all beings. Many human societies recognize a right to free speech (among humans), but nevertheless curtail some kinds of speech, anyway.
Will animal rights ever be “perfect?” Probably not. But we can do better that we’re doing now with regard to the rights of nonhumans. We just have to stop being selfishly concerned with our own desires – and ONLY those desires.
We didn’t sit down and make a careful rational assessment of things like sapience, a capacity for abstract thinking or cognition before we decided to domesticate animals, and despite abstract debates about it, we don’t do it out in the world to justify further animal use. We domesticated animals because we wanted to. We use animals because we want to. We chose then and we choose now to override the animals’ interests in favor of our wishes. It’s a nice idea to think that this is being done in some interest of a given animal’s well-being in some cases, but the whole proposition of use is very heavily weighted in favor of satisfying human desires at the outset. Most of the time (nearly all of the time, I’d say) animal well-being is a secondary concern, at best. If we tell ourselves that a given animal use meets some particular desire we may have, we’re going to do it. If we can reduce suffering in some cases, some number of humans may choose to do that, but it doesn’t really change the fundamental issue. That use will happen with or without “minimal” suffering if enough humans are willing to provide an incentive for it.
We may fetishize dogs and cats in our culture (so we punish people who do things we judge cruel to dogs and cats), but we don’t fetishize pigs, cows or chickens, etc. so we don’t criminalize the same treatment (or far worse), simply because we wish to use *those* animals as food. It doesn’t ultimately matter that we may dance around making a claim of “humane” treatment of those animals. That use will persist, so long as people choose to eat animals, and actual concern for the welfare of those animals will only occur to the extent that there’s a financial incentive for it. If a majority of the market were willing to pay exorbitant prices for happy meat, factory farming would not exist. The market is completely unwilling to do this, so factory farming exists, and will persist, as long as humans continue eating these beings. This is as certain as the sunrise.
I think that humans made a wrong choice, regardless of the fact that the tradition of animal use is well-entrentched at this point. I think that the direct results of that wrong choice are suffering on a massive scale.
Folks may argue back and forth whether or not it should or shouldn’t have been done, but I think that really won’t ever get anywhere. If you think there’s no moral consequence to use, there’s no case against use you’ll ever listen to. If you think use *never could have been justified at the outset* (as I do), it doesn’t matter that some animals may be treated in relatively benign ways today, and in any event benign treatment in the edge cases doesn’t have anything to do with the routine suffering we choose to cause in the majority of cases.